What Causes this - from Canada

[LisaK]

Hello Everyone,
I am from Canada.  I was diagnosed with PP 3.5 yrs.  I am taking Zyprexa and Lithium.
My doctor is quite conservative and thinks that I should be on medication for a long time - 20 yrs etc...
He says that by that time, if I haven't had a relapse, it probably won't happen.  I understand that
a relapse is a possibility, even without another pregnancy??  I was diagnosed at 18 months.  I think my doctor
believes that I had it longer, but wasn't diagnosed.  But I can remember at 18 months, the onset quite clearly.  I was perfectly fine
and then over a week period, I was having delusions.  My daughter fell while playing and although I held her and comforted her,
I didn't check her teeth.  The back of her tooth was broken.  I ended up taking her to the doctor the next day, but I felt like a bad
mother because I initially couldn't recall when she broke it.  Eventually I thought people were judging me, that children's aid was checking
up on me etc....  It went on and on.  Anyone I went into full blown psychosis.  I am okay now.  I just want to know what causes this.  I can't find any real information on the internet.  I see my doctor every 3 or 4 months.  There is another doctor that does research on this, in London Ontario Canada.  I will hopefully see him in the next 3 or 4 months.  I will let you know what he says.  But if you have any information, it would be appreciated.
Oh one other question - I have never been mentally ill before - no bipolar schizophrenic etc...  Is it common for people to have these diseases and then have PP. 
Lisa

[Kay]

Hi Lisa

Like you I never suffered with any mental illness before either, with nothing really in the family other than a bit of OCD.

I don't think they really know what causes it(?)  At the time I suffered it (9 years ago now) I was kind of led to believe that it was mostly down to hormones and chemical reactions in the brain(?) brought about by pregnancy and birth x  I did see one doctor that told my family that I would stay the way I was for the rest of my life and that I would always suffer relapses, but I never have and have not been on any form of medication at all, (touch wood as they say    So, so far so good in that he has been wrong x

I have read that a lot of PP sufferers also have traumatic drawn out labours, which is certainly true in my case.  Was your labour long or traumatic?

There is a University in UK that does a lot of research into PP I don't know if you have seen their site or not?  Here is the link for you if not
http://www.app-network.org

I've never had a further pregnancy, and won't now mostly due to the risk of PP again x I think I remember reading somewhere as well that there MAY be a genetic link.........?  I can't really remember where or when I read that though, sorry x Is there any mental illness in your family that you are aware of?

Anyway, hope this helps xx Take care xx

[LisaK]

Sorry for not getting back to you right away. 
Thanks for the website.  It is very interesting.
To answer your question, I did not have a long or tramautic child birth. 
I also seem to be the exception to things.  I did not go into full blown pychosis until 18 months after my second child was born.  I was pretty well fine for that 18 months - sleep deprived maybe.  My doctor thinks that I had some form of puerperal psychosis but was not diagnosed before then.  The only thing that I can say to that, was that there were times when thoughts would come into my head, like deja vu and I would believe they were true, or that I read it on the internet.  This is hard to explain.  My brain chemistry was probably off, and then for whatever reason I went over the edge.
Thanks again for the reply
Lisa Thornton

[LisaK]

One more thing,
There was no mental illness in my family that I know of, except depression.
Lisa Thornton

[Kay]

Hi xx

I was always under the impression that the onset of PP was very quick and within 1 to 2 days of childbirth, I wasn't aware that it could strike after 18 months.  You learn something new everyday x

I don't know about healthcare where you are, however if my PP taught me 1 thing about healthcare here it's to question everything that you are told as they don't always get it right xx

Glad the link was of use xx

[LisaK]

Hi, 
Yes I guess it is possible to have PP awhile after delivery.  Just to make it clear though - Looking back - I was probably having some mild irrational thoughts between birth and 18 months when I went into big time pychosis.  I just wasn't really aware that they were irrational at the time.  I can really remember sinking into pychosis at 18 months though - I had many strange thoughts - everyone was worried.  I can still remember all the strange thoughts and beliefs I had.  That is when I was admitted to a hospital.

The whole thing worries me.  I have two young daughters and I think about the heredity issues.  When they are older, I will tell them about my illness.  I feel that I willl have to tell them and their partners - so that they can be watched carefully if they decide to have children.  I think they will have to be watched carefully and it can't be just for a few months - as in my case it didn't really become an issue until much later.
Lisa

[LisaK]

One more thing - when I sunk into psychosis at 18 months -  it happend very fast - over a couple of days - all kinds of delusions.
Lisa

[Kay]

Hiya x

Sounds like you had it from the start but that it wasn't diagnosed xx This is a big problem her in UK I think, women just aren't watched carefully enough for the signs and symptons xx I know with my PP I thought I was fine and that everyone else was the problem and with paranoia setting in I then became very secretive and un trusting of those around me thinking that they were out to get me or take the baby away, obviously it then becomes difficult for people to intervene xx

I still remember everything as well xx I still haven't decided if that is a good thing or bad thing lol xx The onset does tend to be very quick so it certainly sounds like PP xx How are you now?

A good idea to tell your daughters when they are old enough to understand xx It's difficult though isn't it, you want to warn people but at the same time you don't want to scare expecting mum's xx

Take care xx

[sunshine]

Hi Girls,

Reading these posts is a bit of a worry and some of it doesn't make sense. I had PP 10 years ago now and I was in hospital for 8 weeks. I was put in the padded room for one week with no visitor then with the general population till I left. There are a few problems with PP, first of all, a lot of doctor won't have come across it before, as it is so rare. So I feel they make it up as they go along in some cases. I stopped seeing my doctor after a while when I found I knew more than he did in the end.

The very best thing I ever did (change my life) was meet up with a lovely lady that worked for Birmingham university on research and better still, she had suffered with the illness twice. She really knew her stuff, she understood how I felt and she was very positive. Through her I got a medical research book on the subject which was wonderful.

You usually get PP within the first 6 weeks after the birth, this is the most common but still very rare time. The second, but even more rare time would be when you stop Breast Feeding. Both times are when the body is going through huge hormonal shifts. I have NEVER heard about relapse. I have really done some research on this and never heard this said. The reason for my hard work is because I have two girls and needed to know as much as I could as we will have to keep a close eye on both of them. The risk is far higher for both my babies but the great news is, they won't have to suffer like I did as we now have a history and the medical side will be aware before they even get pregnant.

I have become depressed and very upset after my recovery but I wouldn't call it a relapse, just a good reason to come here and talk about it all. I have no memory of my illness and I lost 6 months of my babies life. I missed a lot of the big mile stones that mean a lot to a mother. I feel my up's and down's have been caused by a kind of lose. Then guilt because I have a healthy child who is a joy yet I keep looking back and feeling sorry for myself. So, I didn't give her the first solids and I don't remember crawling or learning to walk but I still have a health, funny and loving child. I have just had to work through those times. I have also had huge panic attacks caused by floods of memory. My brain Obviously shut out a horrible time but memories have been triggered and I think this maybe some sort of post traumatic thing. What I am trying to say, is it has not been easy, but I have never worried about getting PP again.

What surprised me after all my reading was that it is thought that one of the reasons for PP is a sign of the times. I am not saying that it is a new illness but Mummy's got it a lot easier many years ago and this goes for post natal depression too. When a girl gave birth a sister or her mother or gran would move in with the new mother. It was thought that this was an important time to get to know baby and rest. Well, that is so different from what we know today. We don't even know how to accept help let alone ask for it. We think we are bad mothers if we can't iron a shirt, dust the house, make the beds and do all this with the baby feeding slung around your neck. Then we have acting like you have everything under control and looking very relaxed when the visitor come, down to a fine art. God forbid, that we admitted that being a new mom was a nightmare. You add hormones to all this when you are only just treading water and it is a recipe for disaster.

Hope some of this info helps

Kimmy

[LisaK]

Hi Kimmy,
I am very glad that you have recovered and that you are better.  You went through a harrowing, extremely distressing experience, and as my doctor would say, it would be normal to have these feelings of loss and depression.  So I hope you won't be too hard on yourself, for normal feelings of loss.

I think what you said about asking for help is a valid point.  My doctor would say that these things would be a trigger for PP along with sleep deprivation.  He says the acutal cause for PP is probably something much more complicated, to cause such a massive disturbance of the brain.  In other words stress alone won't do it alone.  This made me feel better, because if it is something genetic, then it was just plain, out of my control. 

Hope you are feeling better.
Lisa